RMT - Team KSLA

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RMT - Team KSLA - Hydro
Topic Started: Oct 8 2009, 05:00 PM (166 Views)
*tobi-ksla*	Oct 8 2009, 05:00 PM Post #1
I'm looking for a different path. Posts: 5,188 Group: Administrators Member #43 Joined: Nov 19, 2008 Platinum Friend Code 0130 8037 7267 HeartGold Friend Code 2665 4483 2033	Ok, so here's Team KSLA - Hydro. Yes, people. It's a Water-themed team. It's my very first pure competitive team for the 4th Gen. I had another team in mind, but one of the Pokemon had Hidden Power in its moveset, and I felt that I was still not ready to IV-breed for Hidden Power, so I decided to breed my all-Water team. Why all water? Blame Blastoise, Kingdra, Floatzel, and Starmie. Floatzel and Starmie are like cousins thanks to their equal speed while being on opposite sides of the attacking spectrum. Blastoise was one of my favorite Pokemon ever since Blue Version and Kingdra seemed to stand out in my life in several different ways. I've finally paid my debt to my cousin, so now, I can continue building my team! Wheeeeeeeeeeeeee! But before I do, I'll try to get other people's opinions. I'll also post this on other competitive battling forums so that I'll be able to get other opinions. I'll most likely make updates to this thread. Inter-forum discussion! Wheeeeeeeeeeeeee! Anyway, here's my team: Whiscash @Damp Rock Timid Ability: Anticipation EVs: 200 HP / 20 Defense / 36 Sp Defense / 252 Speed IV Plan: 31 HP / 31 Speed -Rain Dance -Earth Power -Hydro Pump -Future Sight / Toxic(?) --> First up is Whiscash! I wouldn't use the term "Rain Lead" because that implies that Whiscash will be the first Pokemon that I send out; although, part of that concept still applies to him, which is to set-up Rain Dance before it dies. If it survives for more than one turn, then he'll be able to dish out some damage. And yes, I'll try to find the right time to switch Whiscash in if ever I don't start the battle with him. --> I chose him because it could take hits from both sides of the attacking spectrum and it is as fast as a Swampert. Yup, survivability and good enough speed. Also, I also wanted a Water-type Rain Dancer who wasn't OU; plus, if you scroll down the page, you'll notice that one glaring weakness that the rest of my team has... --> Timid Nature, Max IV Speed and Max EV Speed are desired so that Whiscash could pull off a Rain Dance first. EVs in defensive stats so that he'll survive just in case the opponent moves first. (Yes people. I used Smogon's Defense IV Applet for the defensive stats...) --> I decided to go with Special moves for several reasons. I wanted Team KSLA to be able to play in both Single and Double Battles, so I chose Earth Power over Earthquake. I also needed to sacrifice a stat in order to boost its Speed, so Attack took the fall. I chose Hydro Pump because it's a Special move and doesn't attack the ally; plus, I wouldn't really care if it misses since Whiscash is supposed to die anyway; also, if it did hit, then boom with STAB plus Rain Dance. Last came Future Sight since it's a Special move as well; however, I'll probably switch it with Toxic depending on what you guys will say. --> Guys, I really need your opinions on this Pokemon before I start breeding for this guy. Suggest moves, an EV/IV spread, a Nature, or even a whole new Pokemon as long as one of the moves is Rain Dance! Ludicolo @Damp Rock (if Item Clause not in play) / Leftovers (if Item Clause is in play) Calm Ability: Swift Swim EVs: 204 HP / 76 Sp Attack / 124 Sp Defense / 104 Speed IV Plan: 31 HP / 31 Defense(?) / 31 Speed -Rain Dance -Surf / Grass Knot(?) -Ice Beam -Leech Seed --> Next comes Ludicolo. Smogon's article said that that I should have at least one Pokemon dedicated to Rain Dance or a Pokemon who can sweep while being bulky. I guess Ludicolo fits that description. Besides, I need some Grass-type resistance. I love how diverse the Water-type can be. --> Yes, I basically copied Smogon. Honestly, I like the concept; although, I still want to hear what you say. Smogon also mentioned Grass Knot as a replacement for Surf. --> I'm thinking of investing 31 IVs in Defense since 31 points are already being invested in its Sp Defense, thanks to its EVs. I don't know. --> Guys, similar to the one above, I really need your opinions on this Pokemon before I start breeding for this guy. Suggest moves, an EV/IV spread, a Nature, or even a whole new Pokemon as long as one of the moves is Rain Dance! Blastoise @Focus Sash Bold or Calm (Yes, people. I have two Blastoise. It's for the sake of rotation.) Ability: Torrent EVs: Bold: 252 HP / 136 Defense / 120 Sp Defense Calm: 252 HP / 160 Defense / 96 Sp Defense IV Spread: 31 HP / 31 Defense / 31 Sp Defense -Protect -Counter -Mirror Coat -Hydro Pump / Hydro Cannon(?) --> I know what you're thinking. This set is too gimmicky. Did you know that my first attempt at IV-Breeding involved a Blastoise like this? Yeah, that's why Blastoise is special to me. (It helped me beat Anabel's Alakazam in Emerald.) Think of him as a trump card. If I need to take down a scary Pokemon, I can always count on Blastoise to take it down. --> Once again, I used Smogon's Defense EV Distribution Applet. --> Protect scouts for the opponent's moves if ever I don't get the chance to see them before I send him out. Counter and Mirror Coat are the main attacks to his strategy. Hydro Pump is there just in case neither Counter nor Mirror Coat could touch the opponent due to type incompatibilities. I'm also considering Hydro Cannon. --> Focus sash is there just in case Blastoise runs into someone with moves that can kill him. The damage of Counter and Mirror Coat seem to rely on how much damage the user receives, so if Blastoise is in near death, boom. And yes, I am aware of the effect of entry hazards on Focus Sash. --> I only need help with deciding a final move. I could stick with Hydro Pump or switch it out for another move (which does not involve breeding). Everything else is non-negotiable. Kingdra @Leftovers (Swift Swim) / Shell Bell (Swift Swim + Item Clause) / Scope Lens (Sniper and if Hax Items Clause is not in play) Docile Ability: Swift Swim or Sniper (Yes, people. I have two Kingdra. It's for the sake of rotation.) EVs: 2 HP / 88 Attack / 40 Defense / 88 Sp Attack / 40 Sp Defense / 252 Speed IV Spread: 31 Attack / 31 Sp Attack / 31 Speed -Surf -Waterfall -Dragon Pulse -Outrage --> My mixed sweeper. I want her to attack from both sides of the attacking spectrum using her STAB moves. Yes, both of my Kingdra are girls. --> I distributed the EVs myself... With good old pen, paper, and calculator... Late in the evening... Yeah, I was in the mood that night... --> Yes, I'll most likely use my Swift Swim Kingdra more since I'll be using Rain Dance. Floatzel @Expert Belt / Life Orb (if Item Clause is in play) Adamant or Jolly (Just like the rest, it's for the sake of rotation.) Ability: Swift Swim EVs: 4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed IV Spread: 31 Attack / 31 Speed -Waterfall -Brick Break -Ice Punch -Crunch --> I was checking Serebii.net's 4th Gen Pokedex for a physical Water-type sweeper and I realized, "Hey, Floatzel is like a physical version of Starmie! He's even as fast as Starmie! YAYZ!" And so, Floatzel became my physical sweeper. --> Smogon set-up. So yeah. Starmie @Expert Belt Modest or Timid (Just like the rest, it's for the sake of rotation.) Ability: Natural Cure EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp Attack / 252 Speed IV Spread: 31 Sp Attack / 31 Speed -Grass Knot (Modest) / Psychic (Timid) -Thunderbolt -Ice Beam -Surf --> According to Serebii.net's 4th Gen Pokedex, Starmie's the fastest Water-type special sweeper. Awesome, right? --> Anime Addict from PLF said that Grass Knot would be a better move than Psychic for the sake of type coverage. Since I had a Pearl Version and a Platinum Version, that meant that I had two Grass Knot TMs. I only used one on my Modest Starmie because I wanted to save the other one if ever I may need it in the future. So yeah, you guys can now tell my two Starmie apart just by watching out for either Grass Knot of Psychic... My gosh... --> Yeah. Smogon set-up again. And so, that was Team KSLA - Hydro! Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! My gosh. Anyway, I really need help with Whiscash and Ludicolo. I really want to get your opinions before I start breeding for them. Other tips are appreciated. And thanks in advance to those who do reply to this thread. (Insert Winking Smiley Here)
	~ TRPG Profile: Remi, The Pokémon World's next Salon Maiden ~ For the record, I have a Salon Maiden Anabel obsession. points at Thorton, who is pointing at the unique picture of Anabel The person who made this banner is multi-talented. Who is he? Click this sentence to find out! Richter Abend (Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World) We must express ourselves to convey our feelings to others. However, I feel emotions lose their strength once they're put into words. So I prefer to speak only what is absolutely necessary.


Coffee	Oct 10 2009, 12:39 PM Post #2
"In a cell gotta make your home, cause you might never make it home" Posts: 649 Group: Elite Members Member #143 Joined: Apr 3, 2009	Hmm, thing is I don't know if I should craft this into a Rain Dance team or a simple mono-water team. If I were to make this into a RD team, I would probably be killing the whole waters only theme you got going on here as i don't think a rain dance team would appreciate getting walled by Vaporeon. The easiest thing to do is to craft this into a mono-water, but that’s taking the easy way out. So I’ll split this up into two sections, one for rain dance and one for mono-water. Now, this is going to (hopefully) be a long and thought out rate so let's get started. The first thing to do, is to list the major problems with this team: 1) Stall Oh god. To be honest, not even full blown stall. Just the combination of Skarmory and Blissey are enough to give you nightmares. Blissey can come in on every single member of your team bar Floatzel and just laugh in your face with paralysis, rendering your rain dance strategy useless, or just spam Seismic toss for some consistent damage. When Floatzel DOES come out, your opponent goes to Skarmory and walls you there. He sets up spikes, and retreats to Blissey. You are stuck in a cycle of switching around to best the walling combo, all the while racking up spikes damage. To put into perspective how weak you are to stall: Members hit for neutral+ by Stealth Rock: 6 Members hit by Spikes: 6 Members affected by toxic spikes: 6 It's not uncommon for stall teams to have a Roaring Gyarados, and if you are you're looking at a probable 6-0 tbh. 2) Lack of defensive backbone Right now, alot of your pokemon are not that great defensively. The way you are using Blastoise is not defensive, it's suicidal so he doesn't fall under that category. Therefore something with a high attack/special attack stat, and reasonable speed can come in time and time again and punish you. Read: Salamence 3) Scizor He really falls in category number 2, but he's such a beast that he deserves his own section imo. Ludicolo, Starmie and Kingdra to an extent are giant magnets for him to switch in and start spamming CB U-turn. Now, let's address you issue of stall first. You'll notice how all of your team is hit by toxic spikes. This is not good, considering that waters are known for being bulky, and are more often than not the only thing standing between you and a nice Gyarados/Metagross sweep. So, we need to fix this. Introducing, Tentacruel! Tentacruel (M) @ Leftovers Ability: Liquid Ooze 142 HP/42 Spd/148 SAtk/176 SDef IV Spread: 31 Sp Attack / 31 Speed AT THE VERY MINIMUM, 31/x/x/31/31/31 is preferred. Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk) - Toxic Spikes - Surf - Rapid Spin - Sludge Bomb The moveset should explain itself. Surf is your STAB move, and rapid spin plays its part in spinning away all entry hazards on your side of the field. Namely spikes and stealth rock, seeing as how he absorbs toxic spikes automatically. You can then lay down some toxic spikes of your own, while they may not appear to help much due to the abundance of steel pokes in the current metagame, those it does hit absolutly hate it. Sludge Bomb > HP electric. While HP lecky helps against Gyarados, you've got him covered well enough in Ludicolo and Swampert (you'll see). It also makes life easier for any dragon type to switch in and set up on you. With Sludge bomb you can still hit Gyarados, aswell as those dragons that loled at HP electric (kingdra in particular). It also helps out against Celebi. As I feel you would prefer that extra Celebi/Shaymin insurance, 142 HP/42 Spd/148 SAtk/176 SDef is the favoured option. With this you hit 245 speed, enough to outspeed both of the common sets who invest in enough speed to outrun Jolly Tyranitar, and 2HKO them both with Sludge bomb with Stealth Rocks up. This is the reason why I stressed 31 special attack / speed as an absolute minimum, as those IVs are needed to make the spread work. 142 HP hits 336 HP providing you have a 31 HP IV, which is a Leftovers number, remaining is put into Sp.def, which manages to hit a jump point. Whiscash is really a poor man's Swampert (apart from Dragon Dancing) and Swampert can do everything you want Whiscash to do, only better: Swampert (M) @ Leftovers Ability: Torrent 252 HP / 216 Def / 36 Sp.def / 4 Speed IV Spread: 31 HP / 31 Sp.Def / 31 Defence Relaxed nature (+Def -Spd) - Stealth Rock - Surf - Roar - Earthquake Swampert is your Tyranitar counter, annd is a brilliant tank and lead. Stealth Rock should be on every team, as it punishes your opponent from continuously switching around. Surf and EQ are his STAB moves, and while it may be tempting to use waterfall and go with an Impsih nature, in the metagame today everyone is aware of the physical threat that many pokemon posses, and so EV mainly in defence to take hits better (example: Swampert above) A Special Surf will hurt Skarmory far more than a Physical Waterfall. I said you had problems with Scizor, and also with Lucario on that matter as he is more than capable of sweeping you with LO Close Combat. Use Gyarados instead of Floatzel to provide a constant offensive and defensive presence within your team: Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers Ability: Intimidate 152 HP / 168 Def / 188 Spe IV Spread: 31 HP/Defence / 31 Attack / 31 Speed Adamant nature (+Att –Sp.Att) - Taunt - Dragon Dance - Waterfall - Stone Edge Gyarados's typing and ability give it an advantage over many other Water-types. This set also attempts to use a slower, more defensive approach rather than the usual hard hitting, offensive strategy. 52 HP / 168 Def / 188 Spe, calls for a much more defensive spread for a sacrifice of power. You can drop the Speed EVs to 144 if you feel that outpacing Timid Gengar is acceptable enough. You will still OHKO said Gengar after a Dragon Dance with Waterfall. On the other hand Choice Band Heracross is only tossing 28-33% with a Choice Band Close Combat after Intimidate is factored in. Unlike most Gyarados sets this takes on Skarmory fairly well. Without Intimidate Skarmory still isn't doing much with Drill Peck and Taunt is still preventing Gyarados from being thwarted off by Whirlwind. Intimidate also helps this set-up as it weakens the damage from Brave Bird. The downside of this, is that you are horribly, HORRIBLY Jolteon weak. Swampert isn’t sticking around for long after a Hidden Power Grass, and everything is mauled by Specs Thunderbolt. Strangely enough Starmie also gives you a run for your money, switching in freely and taking advantage with Thunderbolt and Grass knot. I would make Ludicolo much more specially defensive to give you something to handle those threats: Ludicolo (M) @ Leftovers Ability: Rain Dish EVs: 252 HP/40 SAtk/216 SDef Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk) - Grass Knot - Surf - Leech Seed - Protect A brilliant little Starmie counter, the most powerful attack it can dish out at you is STAB Choice Specs Psychic, which does 37.36% - 44.51% to Ludicolo, a 3HKO. You can then proceed to stall it out with Leech Seed + Protect. More Gyarados insurance. Also Blissey hates leech seed in general, promoting switches for more of your opponents team to (hopefully) get hit by Toxic Spikes. Unfortunately he is 2HKOed by Specs Thunderbolt from Jolteon, but TBH there is no water type Jolteon counter in existence unless Gamefreak release a water/ground with solid rock and 110 HP / Special defence base stats lol. With Starmie, please do not listen to the person on serebii who told you to use a choice band.( For fun, Adamant Starmie with 252 attack evs + CB reaches a 409 attack stat, while Timid Starmie only needs 148 Special attack evs + Specs to reach 409 special attack). You would love a revenge killer to kill that troublesome Dragon dance Salamence/Gengar/Jolteon, and starmie works quite well with a scarf. Starmie @ Choice Scarf Ability: Natural Cure EVs: 40 HP/216 Spd/252 SAtk Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Ice Beam - Surf - Thunderbolt - Trick The following evs + scarf push Starmie up to 480 speed, enough to outspeed Scarf Modest Gengar and below. Max special attack is always nice, the remainder is shoved into HP. Surf is STAB, Thunderbolt and Ice beam are for Gyarados and Salamence respectively. Now, Trick is for when you feel you don’t want your scarf anymore, and would let a dedicated special wall have it. Like Blissey or Snorlax. This in turn makes it alot easier to break past stall and win in the long run. I’ve made 5 suggestions, 3 of them being completly new pokemon. Who to get rid of however? Swampert for Whiscash: This was coming a mile off. Swampert bests Whiscash in stats, movepool and usefulness. The ONLY thing Pert cannot do that you’ve listed is future sight, but it honestly sucks. You’re wasting a turn to hit your opponent 2 turns later, when you could attack now and ultimately have the same effect. Gyarados for Floatzel: Was actually quite tough. In the end Kingdra’s typing saves him, as he isn’t manhandled by electric attacks as floatzel is, and also he helps against Abomasnow. Then again, so did floatzel and brick break. TBH I’m not really decided, try him out for either of them and see which one is best for you. Tentacruel for Blastoise: WHAT NO DON’T GET RID OF MR. BLASTOISE T_T I’ll explain it as best I can. The way you are using Blastoise now, is suicidal and you’re trying to get him as near to death as possible, for a reflection back at your opponent. It’s a waste of his perfectly good defences, and up there with focus sash counter blissey ;-; He also cannot function properly, because of your teammates and how they affect your weaknesses. As an example, 4/6th of your team is walled by Abomasnow. They invite him in with open arms, and he can then threaten to spam Grass knot everywhere. You bring Blastoise in, and find your sash is broken, your protection against OHKOs gone. (although this is the case with SR/entry hazards anyway). Another reason is the complete domination stall has over you. Blastoise is useless, because they will not be attacking you directly, and will be letting Sandstorm + Toxic Spikes + normal spikes do their job while blissey laughs at you. It doesn’t matter if you counter her seismic tosses, since softboiled will heal the damage right off. All the while the hazards are chipping away at your health, reducing the usefulness of counter and mirror coat themselves. Protect, and you’re only inviting your own doom. You’re also taunt-bait and set up bait, which you really don’t want to be in a game with Salamence running about =/ In short, he requires too much work from you, without giving much back to the team. You’ve KOed that Jolteon with a mirror coat, congratulations! You could’ve gone down the same path by predicting the T-bolt and switching to Whiscash, then using earth power. Same ending, but you still have 1 poke left fighting. Tentacruel fufills a much better role for your team, by spinning away hazards, soaking up toxic spikes and ridding you of Shaymin, Celebi and Abomasnow believe it or not, since Energy ball is only neutral on him, and he looses health by using leech seed. If you take my advice, let’s see how things shape up now: 1) Stall Tentacruel can easily get rid of all entry hazards for you, Gyarados has taunt to stop skarmory and blissey from healing/setting up, Ludicolo can Leech Stall Blissey. Toxic spikes ruins Hippo and Bliss, Tentacruel can 2HKO Celebi. Resttalk Gyarados will not appreciate leech seed/Thunderbolt/Grass knot. Members hit for neutral+ by Stealth Rock: 5 (swampert resists) Members hit by Spikes: 5 (gyarados flies) Members affected by toxic spikes: 4 (Gyarados flies, tenta is a posion type) 2) Lack of defensive backbone Gyarados and Swampert both provide a physically defensive backbone, Ludicolo and Tentacruel on the special side of things. Gyarapert is decent synergy, Pert taking the rock and electric attacks aimed at Gyara with ease 3) Scizor Lol gyara. 4) Abomasnow Hmm. Gyarados may hurt it with stone edge, but doesn’t like 100% accurate STAB blizzard. Tentacruel laughs at anything he tries bar earthquake, Starmie can trick a scarf onto him to limit him somewhat. This is already long enough as it is, so if you’re stuck on making a rain dance team I recommend Looking Here, and then asking any questions you may have afterwards. Good luck



Poke Pokey	Nov 7 2009, 09:43 AM Post #3
We are the World. We Are the Children. Posts: 2,796 Group: Elite Members Member #57 Joined: Dec 27, 2008	Now, make sure all your pokemon have a decent setlist of moves, especially if you are going for a all water based team.
	You can call all you want, but theres no one home And You're not gonna reach my Telephone, Cause Im out in the club, I'll be sippin' that Bud And You're not Gonna reach my Telephone.


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